Pack Odds for Amateur Sets

(Loimprevisto) #21

What bugs me about the changes is that they seemed to deliberately target that “satisfaction”, and rather than improving their user’s experience, they threw up obstacles that are universally perceived to reduce the feeling of satisfaction that their users get from engaging with the site. Then they expect people to pay for the chance to have a satisfying experience, instead of heading over to,,,, or any of the other wonderful art communities that exist on the internet.

They built something really great that had a lot of community engagement and brand loyalty… then they squandered it. Their team figured out a good way to promote digital scarcity, then someone decided to remove the features that people liked and introduced a system where many cards will literally never be published or will have a single-digit print run. They chased a lot of collectors and artists away, but there are a lot of people still on the fence; I hope they figure out a solution before the community dissolves altogether.

(Peopleschampion) #22

It does seems they want to trim all the fat (free players) to keep a selected batch of paid collectors, I’ve seen a few since the upgrade, very few, I might add. They didn’t upgraded thinking around scarcity, but exclusivity. I won’t be surprised if they take down the amateur category in the future.

(xUsako) #23

I have to agree with @peopleschampion,
if they change the odds of amateur, how many people do you think will prefer to collect amateur?
How many artists will switch to submitting only amateur? (i know I would)
I hate to say it, but NM will gain nothing from changing odds in amateur sets, and we all know atm they care about what they can gain. :confused:

(Samantai) #24

It really depends on artists as well, I feel.
Personally, as an artist, if I hear that the odds of collecting are better in amateur, I would be perfectly fine submitting my cards to amateur.

As it is now, my current submissions have no revenue at all, which is fine. I can deal with the idea that maybe I just don’t have that required amount of professionalism needed to make my drawings lucrative.
But I sure do love having fun and sharing art, and if I have more chances of completing my own cards in amateur rather than in pro, then sure. Why wouldn’t I focus on that?
A lot of people here are in it for the collecting, and not as much for the money per say, and they produce great things even in amateur. We’ve had great gems in there before after all, and I suspect that if amateur gets a better treatment, a lot more of people (collectors and artists) will want to migrate to amateur.

So obviously, they need a deterrent to keep us from trying our hand at amateur, and the impossibility or incertitude to complete large sets, or even a normal one is as good as it gets.

(JB) #25

I hear what everyone is saying here, but no one seems to be answering my question.

How do we complete the amateur sets with the current odds on place?

If we can’t pull the higher rarities in free packs and we can’t buy them, them how do we get them?

Odds don’t have to be excellent, just attainable.

(Nicodeamus) #26

You can’t…not without some serious purging and lucky trading.

If not being able to complete an amateur set is preferable to the risk of pro artists moving to amateur, then get rid of the section or at least warn people they will be hard to complete in their time frame.

(Samantai) #27

As said, you just won’t be able to.
And I guess, it’s the point at the moment.

(Spooningbards) #28

You don’t - that’s your answer. Ultimately NeonMob only cares if you spend money, and as others have said, they don’t want opportunities to buy cards squandered. Most people would say trading would be how you collect them, but considering trading is nonexistent now…

(Spooningbards) #29

Maybe not, but it’s just common sense to expect that users will want other changes if one is ushered in, especially if one thing can be changed, but the other is left as is – if amateurs odds were rolled back, you can’t tell me there wouldn’t be at least one person asking about the possibility of rolling back pro series, too.

Not that that would happen, much less the addition of an ability to purchase amateurs.

It’s sad, though, since changing the system to earn money could kill the site in the long run. Too bad they didn’t think of, you know, advertising.

(Nicodeamus) #30

I just don’t really see a problem there. Asking for all series to be rolled back is already happening, people are already wanting that, so in what way is expectation affecting anything? Are people going to ask louder if amateur series odds were changed? haha.

(Spooningbards) #31

lmao there never was a problem… I made a passing comment about it and it was picked out because it wasn’t the answer/comment the poster wanted? idk.

(Nicodeamus) #32

This is where you said it wouldn’t make sense to roll back amateur without pro. And you keep repeating that changes to one will cause expectations for the other, as if that fact is not understood. It is understood, just irrelevant to the problem I think. Like you said yourself, NeonMob doesn’t care about our feelings our satisfaction.

(Spooningbards) #33

I said it would make more sense, as in it would make more sense than anything for them to just rollback the entire system. It’s not /that/ irrelevant from the problem, either, it’s just not the answer the poster wants - it was merely there as discussion.

(JB) #34

The “answer” I wanted was a productive discussion about a legitimate flaw in the redesign of the card system.
Instead of that I received negativity about “why this…” and “can’t that”.

Can we just talk about the issue itself and not why they won’t change it?

Let’s not provide them the excuses to spoon-feed them back to us.
Let them answer for it themselves - maybe - just maybe - we could get a more positive response in place of silence as we bicker amongst ourselves.

(Samantai) #35

We all know the issue, and that’s that the current system is not working, and is unfair at best.

And all right, you want positive answers on this issue at hand, suggestions on how they could change the amateur section and make it a more positive experience, that is your right.
But it is our right as well to consider this issue as being unsolvable, as stated by our reasons above.

It’s nice to be idealistic about an issue and hoping for the best, but being realistic is what I feel would benefit these discussions more.
But if these are not answers you expect, then yeah, I don’ know what else to add.
I don’t want to raise anyone’s expectations by offering ideas I don’t even believe in.

(Nicodeamus) #36

I can’t speak for anyone else, but visiting the forums and discussing how NeonMob could work for the users, even if not reverted entirely back to the way we love and remember, is mostly what keeps me coming back to the site now.

We all have a bad taste in our mouths post-change. But saying Neonmob plain won’t do anything is pure speculation. They already increased the time window for amateur series and they didn’t have to do that. I’m not saying I expect them to fix things, but that it’s possible so why not discuss how it could be fixed, or how we can work through the current system. Coming in here just to say “they won’t” isn’t helpful. I will never be okay with a collection site offering series that cannot be completed.

(Samantai) #37

I know it’s speculation, but so is assuming that neonmob might listen to us simply asking to make it more fair.
Both arguments have points and fallacies, and it pushes us to argue further (which I don’t mind).
Although, while I have respect for these that hold on and hope that amateur series might get an update that will be considered as fair, I want to be realistic still. Sure, one might offer solutions for something that remains free, and that is fine, but I’d like to be able to also voice I don’t believe in it. That to have better options in the free series, we need to fix the paying systems first and guarantee that neonmob can sustain itself properly economically without gauging us.
I’m not arguing that it’s impossible, I’m just saying it’s hugely improbable and it doesn’t make sense.

That being said, when I’m wrong, I say that I am wrong, and I would gladly be proven wrong. I hope I’m wrong, I really do, but I don’t think I am.
Still, I also understand that my opinions are not asked or needed if they remain down to earth, as I feel they are.
I get that the author wants solutions for amateur sets that are helpful for them, which I can’t give.
Without hard feeling, I’ll abstain from this argument from now on.

(JB) #38

Haven’t had a chance to open any packs yet, but for those following this post I wanted to share :slight_smile:

Thanks @sierra

(Nicodeamus) #39

Can confirm, opened both a Chase and E.Rare today :open_mouth: glad i won’t have to use all of my trading fodder to finish Sunflow Unlimited now! Just in time for the release of the pro version (Sunflow Unlimited Season 2) too.

(Spooningbards) #41

Now, how about those odds for the pro packs? And the issue with cards being infinite (heck, why do cards even /have/ numbers anymore)? And the trading being nonexistent now due to the change in Neon Mob as a whole?

This still isn’t a service I want to pay money towards. It may make some people happy, but I rarely, rarely collect amateur series, and lately amateur series’ quality isn’t really passable as something to collect. When a majority of submissions (more than in the past) look like five minutes spent in MSPaint, amateur odds being improved is hardly anything to celebrate.

Yes, I know, you can’t buy amateur sets. Still, amateur sets odds being fixed a little isn’t all that redeeming, so hopefully other people will be heard, too. If odds for pro packs were fixed? I might start spending money on packs again. If they were finite again and odds for pro series were fixed? Hell yes I would spend money.