Pack Odds for Amateur Sets

(JB) #1

Can someone please explain to me why the odds for amateur sets are similar to the pro series odds for infinite sets?

I have been pulling the recently re-opened Sunflow Unlimited, and with the exception of the first pack I opened - a promo pack mind you - I have had nothing but commons, uncommons and rares.

If we cannot buy packs to increase our odds of getting better packs - then why would the odds for the higher rarity cards differ that greatly from the lower rarities?

These are FREE sets - with no way to collect other than the free packs you give us each day.
I get it if you want us to blow our free packs on these sets so we have to buy credits on the pros - but if you only let us use three packs per set then that really doesn’t help much.

So @sierra, when you are reactivating sets, can you as reset the odds so we can complete them and move to the next set? I do not want to pull 3 packs of a set for 90 days and not complete it!

All this accomplishes is loss for the amateur artists that wont get collected for those that know they’ll never complete their set - or don’t want to waste the packs on them since they need to use them on the pro sets they have to pull for 6 months just to finish them.

(Nicodeamus) #2

This is frustrating. I am a huge fan of Sunflow Unlimited but am having a hard time justifying opening packs from it. I began conceding that maybe I’ll only complete it up to Very Rare, and even that would be near impossible unless it gets a ton more activity before its time is up; each Very Rare has about 20-30 copies at the moment. Its hard to gage the odds off my pulls since the odds were changed during, but I’ve opened only 4/11 Very Rares in a month and 1/11 Extremely Rares, so at best I pull 3 or 4 Extremely Rares before its done. I’ve pulled both Chases already, but would prefer opening more high rarity core cards!

(Spooningbards) #3

If they reset the odds for amateurs, players will expect all odds to be reset, so it makes more sense to rollback the system in general - I doubt they’ll give more than one extension, too.

It’s sad. I adore some of these series, but I can’t get the cards I need from trading and I can’t pull them. Hopefully others are having better luck.

(JB) #4

No they will not expect that. Pro sets are paid and have the paid pack tiered options - the Amateur sets are free - and there is no way to collect them other than with the 10 free packs and trading.

It is not the same thing.

(Spooningbards) #5

You can’t be sure of that, you’re speaking for yourself - if it’s possible for them to change the odds if users request it for the amateur series. Changing the odds on amateur series wiould give users hope that they could return the odds on other series, too, regardless of them being pro (seeing as how even pro series have the same exact issue - of being unable to collect the series, and you can buy them), which may keep them from answering the request.

The fact that they have the same odds may have to do with the differences in use of work, or just the new system in general.

(JB) #6

My point is you are comparing apples to oranges.

Amateur sets are simply art that is published for anyone to collect for free.
Pro sets are where income is made.

Also, before this infinite print system, each set had a finite number of prints with published pack odds - so you knew before you even collected how hard it would be to pull the higher rarity cards. And each set had their own unique odds - so either publishing them - or even tweaking them - is not difficult.

My point is - why have rarities in amateurs at all? The whole point of them is to add challenge levels to complete sets, thus incentivizing pack purchases or trading the kitchen sink to get them.

You can’t purchase packs for the amateurs - so why make it infinitely harder to collect them?

There is no reason to.

Let the new artists get the exposure - let us complete these sets.

It’s not difficult - and it is not the same for pro sets.

(Spooningbards) #7

So you’re saying take rarities out of amateur packs…? That would likely take peoples’ incentive to collect it away – rather, it takes the point of collecting a series away because you will only have commons and uncommons, something you will pull immediately because they’re fairly common - obviously trading the rares is something people enjoy, or they wouldn’t question odds.

The artists get exposure either way in the end.

(JB) #8

Again - missing the bigger picture. They could also be all Extremely Rare prints - or all Rares.

The point is - just make whatever the designation of the print is have reasonable odds of pulling it. So if I pull 3 packs a day for 7 days I will at least get a couple of higher rarity cards. They do not have to drop in every pack - but I have pulled 3 packs a day for a few weeks now and all of those free packs had rares and lower.

So I pulled 60+ packs and not one very rare, extremely rare or chase print?
It’s an amateur set - so how am I to get these prints if no one can pull them with these odds?

THAT is the point of this entire post.
HOW do you complete amateur sets if the odds are the same as pro sets, but with no way to buy prints?
THIS is the question I want an admin to respond to.

(Nicodeamus) #9

It would be really nice if they reset the system in general but expectation has nothing to do with it. There doesn’t seem to be a method for finishing an amateur series like Sunflow Unlimited as it is, but there are methods for finishing a pro series as is. That is why SilverMelowldy is right about it being apples and oranges.

(Spooningbards) #10

Expectation that leads to requesting does, yes, or we wouldn’t have deadlines extended.

I don’t care about it being apples in oranges, nor the comparison (which I wasn’t comparing in the first place?) – all I said was that giving an incentive to free players (yes, I am fully aware you have more ways to collect pro series as you’ve said, I’ve known prior to this) may lead to people who find issues with collecting pro series to also push for the odds to be reset, as you have just as many problems collecting bigger pro series (even with the ability to buy more packs. Players have attested to this already after spending money).

That’s all. I don’t remember saying I was making a comparison.

(JB) #11

This right here is your equation of amateur and pro sets.

And users that were here prior to this infinite set update already have a multitude of issues with the new system.

Amateur sets are in a class of their own (hence the separate designation) and their modification has nothing to do with Pro sets. Making Amateur sets possible to complete is fixing this error with the new system - as before this update you could complete these sets.

(Nicodeamus) #12

The comparison was made when you said there would be an expectation by the community for change in pro series if a change is made in amateur series. A slippery slope fallacy. I don’t believe this to be a problem, because the community already wants those changes made… And there is a functional reason to change one and not the other. Rare cards are limited in pro series so people will buy packs, rares are limited in amateur series so…people can’t finish collections? Its an unnecessary limit. The only argument against this would be that pulling amateur keeps you from using free packs on pro and needing to buy them, but I would argue that not opening the pro series in the first place with free packs will keep you from having the incentive to spend money to finish them.Everyone wins if we move on from amateur series quicker (unless I’m missing something).

Sorry if I am just misunderstanding what you are trying to say.

(Spooningbards) #13

Yeah, it’s going right over your head, too.

(Spooningbards) #14

Making a comment on something does not equate an instant comparison. I was never arguing anything in the first place, I was making a ‘what if’ comment. In surmise all I said was, hey, if they are willing to make one change on the site, we can expect them to make another because it’s already a problem people are having with opening packs, since bending on that could mean a change in the system/them budging on what they’ve already set in place…

Calm yourselves.

(Samantai) #15

From an economical standpoint, it wouldn’t serve Neonmob well.
At least, if I try to follow their logic.

Consider this; if they did make it so that it would be easier to collect rare cards in the amateur series, a lot of collectors would not want to collect the premium cards anymore. It would be more fun and satisfying to focus on amateur sets.
Of course, neonmob doesn’t want that, because that means less opportunity for revenue.

So by keeping the odds for amateur packs also extremely low, it would be wiser for us to focus on the packs that give you at least different options of obtaining rare cards, and where you have a much longer timespan of collecting them.
If anything, free sets are really just taking up space, they are not lucrative for neonmob, so why cater to those and give these sets advantages if they won’t generate revenue.

The point, I feel, is to just give us more incentive to just consider only the packs that have paying options, and it’s pretty depressing. orz

(Nicodeamus) #16

I wasn’t trying to imply we were arguing, just using ‘argument’ to define the different points we are making o: no offense or opinion shoving meant. You said if they were going to roll back amateur sets they would be better off rolling everything back because of expectations. I just didn’t see that as necessarily so. Didn’t mean to sound not calm, I’m not angry or anything, sorry o__O

(JB) #17

Actually, I think this would in the end. Pro series are just that, and are of a higher standard and typically the more popular sets since they are voted on, and are of a stronger caliber.

I don’t want to say better or worse, as we all know art is subjective - but these sets are held to a different standard in this system and artists do their very best to incentivize users to purchase these prints.

Amateurs are simply a place for anyone to do anything (as long as it’s their work and not infringing TOS) to share with the users here. Artists can do whatever they feel expresses themselves and whomever collects is does. There is no money changing hands and we can only use our free packs or trade to get them.

So if I am collecting 4 amateur sets - there goes all 10 packs right there. So if I want to also collect the Pro sets, I have the option to purchase packs to keep my collections on track and even increase my odds with higher tiered purchase options.

I’m not saying I have to pull an ER every pack, but when I open 60+ packs and I don’t get one VR, ER or chase - what other option is there to complete the Amateur sets if everyone is experiencing these same odds? Extending the time of the series does nothing to help if it takes 100+ packs per ER, etc.

How does this help more users collect sets - as was their reasoning for infinite prints - if you never pull the higher tiered cards and you can’t buy them?

Answer - you don’t, unless something changes in the system.

(Peopleschampion) #18

They won’t change it because of “Satisfaction”

If, as a player you find amateur sets easier to complete and more Satisfying to collect, that became a deterrent for buying pro sets and the ideal they should be.

Take Avatars with the infinite amount of chases and imagine an amateur set with half the quality, but the posibility of pulling a chase every 10 packs, How many players would change Avatars for this newer set?

(JB) #19

Personally I wouldn’t. There are few amateur sets that I go after, as I am more likely to collect what I like, regardless if it is amateur or pro.

I just want a way to actually complete the set, specifically in this instance Sunflow Unlimited. That set has over 70 prints and I have only been able to get one ER and one chase - and those were both in the promo pack!

It is not about “satisfaction” per se - but the actual ability for anyone to complete the set period.

(Nicodeamus) #20

It doesn’t need to be changed for ‘Satisfaction’, it needs to be changed because it doesn’t allow people to do the very thing this site is built around. If you told people they couldn’t finish amateur series up front, most of them would never start opening them!